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World Cup 2010 discussion.

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England flag

Postby Tony Minoldo » Fri Jun 18 2010, 21:02

Out of curiosity, why so may England supporters at the World Cup wear the British colours (flags, hats, etc) rather than the English ones?
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Re: England flag

Postby Geoff » Sat Jun 19 2010, 09:54

I think thats becoming something of the past mate. The Union flag was overused for our country and since the NF has become a thing of the past that used to soil our St Georges flag more people are now proud to fly it. If you look from about twenty years ago to today, it is more red and white and less blue. And it is in no small way down to football that our flag has been redeemed.
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Re: England flag

Postby Tony Minoldo » Sat Jun 19 2010, 15:50

Geoff wrote:I think thats becoming something of the past mate. The Union flag was overused for our country and since the NF has become a thing of the past that used to soil our St Georges flag more people are now proud to fly it. If you look from about twenty years ago to today, it is more red and white and less blue. And it is in no small way down to football that our flag has been redeemed.



I noticed that yesterday at the end of the match. However, I never noticed the Union Jack in a Scotland match (correct me if I'm wrong). People abroad make so much confusion about what is England, Scotland, Wales, the difference between GB and the UK, etc, to the point once, years ago, I noticed someone didn't know Scotland had a flag!
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Re: England flag

Postby michael » Sat Jun 19 2010, 16:15

Tony Minoldo wrote:
Geoff wrote:I think thats becoming something of the past mate. The Union flag was overused for our country and since the NF has become a thing of the past that used to soil our St Georges flag more people are now proud to fly it. If you look from about twenty years ago to today, it is more red and white and less blue. And it is in no small way down to football that our flag has been redeemed.



I noticed that yesterday at the end of the match. However, I never noticed the Union Jack in a Scotland match (correct me if I'm wrong). People abroad make so much confusion about what is England, Scotland, Wales, the difference between GB and the UK, etc, to the point once, years ago, I noticed someone didn't know Scotland had a flag!

I think you would find many union jack flags at a Rangers home game and Scotland home match. It appears the reason behind this has past vague secterian connections with the protastants and the support of Rangers fans for Queen and country!
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Re: England flag

Postby Geoff » Sat Jun 19 2010, 16:22

Yeah the whole UK/GB thing can be confusing.

England, Scotland and Wales make up the three countries of Great Britain. The UK is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Four countries plus wider territories.

Oh and the Union flag is called the Union flag and is not the Union Jack!

Union Jack was officially acknowledged as an alternative name for the Union Flag by the Admiralty and Parliament in the early 20th century. The term 'jack' refers to the flag that is flown from the bowsprit of a ship, often denoting nationality (I nicked that bit on a google search).

Oh and also the British Isles includes the whole of Ireland and Wales isn't actually a country but a principality.

Hope that helps! :wink:
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Re: England flag

Postby rossco » Sat Jun 19 2010, 20:09

Start watching out for the White dragon flag older than the cross of ST.George our first true flag dating back to the anglo saxon times.I predict in next 5 years you will see it flying in equal numbers to c.o.s.g. :D
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Re: England flag

Postby Tony Minoldo » Sun Jun 20 2010, 07:57

[q[b]uote="michael"] I think you would find many union jack flags at a Rangers home game and Scotland home match. It appears the reason behind this has past vague secterian connections with the protastants and the support of Rangers fans for Queen and country![/quote]


Thanks, Michael, that's quite interesting, I knew quite a few Irish (from the Republic) support Celtic, even though is from a different country, due to alledged connections with Catolics, whereas Rangers supports are/were mostly protestants. Interesting mixing of fotball and religion. In Italy instead, club supporters (and hooligans) were traditionally linked to political parties: for instance, Lazio in the far right (don't know if the news made it to the UK when Paolo Di Canio used the "Roman salut" (basically, the nazi one) towards the Lazio fans after scoring against Roma in one of his last Roman derbies?). Inter were/are also in the right side of things, whilst Milan, and specially Livorno belong to the left wing..
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Re: England flag

Postby Tony Minoldo » Sun Jun 20 2010, 08:08

Geoff wrote: Oh and the Union flag is called the Union flag and is not the Union Jack!

Union Jack was officially acknowledged as an alternative name for the Union Flag by the Admiralty and Parliament in the early 20th century. The term 'jack' refers to the flag that is flown from the bowsprit of a ship, often denoting nationality (I nicked that bit on a google search).


Geoff, you got me more confused here, is not the Union Jack but it's been acknowledged as an alternative name???

Oh and also the British Isles includes the whole of Ireland and Wales isn't actually a country but a principality.

Hope that helps! :wink:


Mate, you killed me with this last one! The whole of Ireland and Wales are a principality? Or you are referring to Jersey, the Isle of Man, Guernsey, etc?

I have another three queries regarding flags (no google though!)

1) Why the Royal Navy flag is the England one with the Union flag in the top left corner?

2) Why the Union flag is -or it seems to me to be- the England and the Scotland flags overimposed, but there seem not to be any traces of the other two countries forming the UK, Wales and Northern Ireland?

3) Rossco, can you tell us more about the White Dragon flag, please? I assume it refers to the time before Britain was conquered/adopted Christianism?

In case someone complains this is not strictly football, what the heck, a) don't read it, the usual thing about a free society, etc; b) I think is very interesting; c) apart the world cup there is not much to talk about...
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Re: England flag

Postby rossco » Sun Jun 20 2010, 11:00

Tony, the white dragon flag was brought to these shores by the angles saxon and jutish raiders,there is a historical reference in westminster abbey and on the bayeaux tapestry,going back to 1066 it was flown by harold and his men so it pre dates c.o.st.g by some time. more info on we are the english.com.whilst strictly not football it has not been busy on here, hope you find info . helpful Tony.
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Re: England flag

Postby Geoff » Sun Jun 20 2010, 14:02

No idea why we have the Navy flag which I believe is called the Royal Ensign? I could be wrong. Southern Ireland or EIRE is it's own country but is part of the British Isles. Wales is a principality and was once upon a time just part of England. The flag is the British flag and not the flag of the UK, which includes Northern Ireland. As a principality Wales doesn't get a place on the Union flag. I hope that is as clear as mud! :lol:
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Re: England flag

Postby stringz » Sun Jun 20 2010, 17:34

Originally, from about the mid 1600s, there were 3 ensigns red, white, and blue. These were basically squadrons of the Royal Navy each with there own Admiral. Later on as the navy became more organised these sections were banded together and resulted in the White Ensign being flown by the Royal Navy, the Red by the merchant marine and the blue by armed ships from the empire. The red ensign is still used by merchant marine even to his today by some former colonies!

As far as the CI is concerned they are Crown Dependencies and are totally independent of Britian but allow us to look after there foreign policy (to an extent) for which they get British protection. This goes way back to Henry something or other when Britain ruled much of Northern France.
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Re: England flag

Postby Geoff » Sun Jun 20 2010, 17:49

Henry the seventh I do believe Mr Stringz... again could be wrong (not googling).
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