Follow @Nomad4rum
Find us on facebook

4-4-2: Why yes and why not

[ Facebook comments]

Qualified coach with tips to pass on? Need help?

Moderators: octopus, Shiner, Gareth D, gonzo, The Tye

Opens in new browser window

4-4-2: Why yes and why not

Postby Tony Minoldo » Fri Mar 30 2007, 20:09

Most coaches and players in England prefer to use a flat 4-4-2 formation.

Why?
User avatar
Tony Minoldo
 
Posts: 504
Joined: Thu Dec 14 2006, 21:07
Location: AC Milan

Opens in new browser window

Postby spacey » Sun Apr 01 2007, 08:28

I would have thought most coaches around the world play 442, but you would would be in a better position than me to answer that having coached abroad.

One of the reasons teams play 442 is due to the success of the formation when you look at the most succesful teams recently, the majority of them have played 442. (Man Utd, Arsenal, France, Brazil, Italy) I would also say (guess) that every team that has won the World Cup after 1966 probably played 442

Its the way they play 442 it that differs though.

Overall though most teams at least play with four at the back, a few might play 433 or 451 and some play 352 and a few 343

At WSFL and SCFL level I think the majority of teams also play 442 team management and players are more comfortable with it than other formations.
Pre-season is about bullshi!tters, backstabbers and finding out who you can trust!
spacey
 
Posts: 614
Joined: Wed Sep 28 2005, 11:24
Location: Storrington

Opens in new browser window

Postby slim shady » Sun Apr 01 2007, 19:28

It's because we aren't good enough to play any other way.

Steve
Audere est Facere
slim shady
 
Posts: 238
Joined: Thu Sep 29 2005, 07:45

Opens in new browser window

Postby Tony Minoldo » Mon Apr 02 2007, 12:27

Spacey,

I disagree: Italy didn't play 4-4-2 in the last world cup (4-2-3-1 0r 4-5-1 most of the time, neither did France (4-2-3-1 in both 1998 and 2000).

At WSPL we don't play 4-4-2, but you're right, we might be the exception...
User avatar
Tony Minoldo
 
Posts: 504
Joined: Thu Dec 14 2006, 21:07
Location: AC Milan

Opens in new browser window

Postby spacey » Mon Apr 02 2007, 12:44

Tony Minoldo wrote:Spacey,

I disagree: Italy didn't play 4-4-2 in the last world cup (4-2-3-1 0r 4-5-1 most of the time, neither did France (4-2-3-1 in both 1998 and 2000).

At WSPL we don't play 4-4-2, but you're right, we might be the exception...


Well whatever they played it worked,

So what formation do you play in the WSFL then?
Pre-season is about bullshi!tters, backstabbers and finding out who you can trust!
spacey
 
Posts: 614
Joined: Wed Sep 28 2005, 11:24
Location: Storrington

Opens in new browser window

Postby Tony Minoldo » Mon Apr 02 2007, 19:21

I can't tell you know, we still have 6 matches to play and I know that at least one person from Dorking W and one from TD Shipley use this forum... :lol: :lol: :lol: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: But basically, I coach my teams to play with 2-3 different formations in training, so we can swith between formation in the middle of a match if needed.
User avatar
Tony Minoldo
 
Posts: 504
Joined: Thu Dec 14 2006, 21:07
Location: AC Milan

Opens in new browser window

Postby bakes » Tue Jun 05 2007, 18:12

i think thats the right way to go about it the main 3 probably being 4-4-2 4-3-3 and 3-5-2

i think most teams play a 4-4-2 as its the most adaptable formation, with more coverage/discussion these days people begin to analyse more and realise that often teams are playin a 4-5-1 or a 4-2-3-1. where as before this was just a 4-4-2???

keeping a 4-4-2 is very easy keep your team shape and change your style of play. where as some other formations can tend to dictate the way u play.

possibly another reason why is that players arent coached at a young age in anything other than a 4-4-2. so then these 2nd striker roles, target man, anchor man, play maker roles, interchanging midfielders. become hard to find. and a lot of the time managers/coaches are forced to play a formation dictated to them by the players they have??
not necesarrly the right thing to do, but then it always seems to come back to what i think is our biggest problem in this country, which is our enphasis being too much on winning to the detrement of the long term???
bakes
 
Posts: 221
Joined: Thu Oct 20 2005, 00:20
Location: fisher

Opens in new browser window

Postby Captain Jack Sparrow » Wed Jun 06 2007, 21:21

I think that sometumes coaches try to put round pegs into square holes with formations because that's what they know. I do believe that players should be adaptable and I try to teach kids generic football skills that apply to all positions, but............why not play to your strengths within a team. If you've got an awesome sweeper, use him!! If you've got someone that can genuinly play as an attacking midfielder and not just a lazy rat that wants to be a luxury player then use them in that role.

Play a formation that uses the strengths of the players you've got and try to hide the weaknesses.
Captain Jack Sparrow
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Sep 08 2006, 07:27

Opens in new browser window

Postby Lord Zola » Fri Jun 08 2007, 11:22

Captain Jack Sparrow wrote:I think that sometumes coaches try to put round pegs into square holes with formations because that's what they know. I do believe that players should be adaptable and I try to teach kids generic football skills that apply to all positions, but............why not play to your strengths within a team. If you've got an awesome sweeper, use him!! If you've got someone that can genuinly play as an attacking midfielder and not just a lazy rat that wants to be a luxury player then use them in that role.

Play a formation that uses the strengths of the players you've got and try to hide the weaknesses.


Makes perfect sense Jack, a coach in the making...............
KTBFFH
User avatar
Lord Zola
 
Posts: 957
Joined: Wed Sep 28 2005, 09:42
Location: Chelsea & England

Opens in new browser window

Postby Captain Jack Sparrow » Fri Jun 08 2007, 20:05

I can't wait to be a coach/manager mate. You'd definately be my first signing :wink:
Captain Jack Sparrow
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Sep 08 2006, 07:27

Opens in new browser window

Postby Big Sus » Fri Jul 20 2007, 12:42

I sometimes wonder whether too much is made of formations. Obviously you need some form of structure but the honest truth of it all is that PLAYERS WIN FOOTBALL MATCHES NOT FORMATIONS
Ian Saunders
Follow the stags at [color=#0000FF]http://www.pitchero.com/clubs/midhurstandeasebournefc
Follow Petersfield Town FC at http://www.petersfieldtownfc.co.uk
User avatar
Big Sus
 
Posts: 904
Joined: Tue Jan 16 2007, 15:01
Location: Salisbury
Non League Club: Petersfield Town FC
Pro Club: Plymouth Argyle
Twitter Acct: @BigSus1975

Opens in new browser window

Postby Geoff » Fri Jul 20 2007, 18:32

Hitler thought he could win without a formation to... :wink:
User avatar
Geoff
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5248
Joined: Mon Sep 26 2005, 16:19
Location: East Preston
Non League Club: East Preston FC
Pro Club: Seagulls
Twitter Acct: @Nomad4rum

Opens in new browser window

Postby Captain Jack Sparrow » Sun Jul 22 2007, 18:09

Big Sus wrote:I sometimes wonder whether too much is made of formations. Obviously you need some form of structure but the honest truth of it all is that PLAYERS WIN FOOTBALL MATCHES NOT FORMATIONS


Although I appreciate what you're saying about the players on the pitch actually winning the game, if the tactics aren't correct for the players and the opposition you will undoubtably lose. Tactics play a major part football. Look at what Rafa Benitez can do against some of the top sides. In a one-off game I'd have him as my manager over anyone else in the world.
Tactics can also motivate and demotivate players depending on whether or not they like/agree with the formation or job thay have been given. Tactics are more improtant than many people think. It is very important to be flexible with your tactics and be able to change throughout a season/game to adapt to your environment.
So in conclusion I agree that to a certain extent the players win matches but if they don't know their jobs within the team you may as well have any old idiot playing for you.
Captain Jack Sparrow
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Sep 08 2006, 07:27

Opens in new browser window

Postby Big Sus » Sun Jul 22 2007, 19:17

Captain Jack Sparrow wrote:Although I appreciate what you're saying about the players on the pitch actually winning the game, if the tactics aren't correct for the players and the opposition you will undoubtably lose. Tactics play a major part football. Look at what Rafa Benitez can do against some of the top sides. In a one-off game I'd have him as my manager over anyone else in the world.
Tactics can also motivate and demotivate players depending on whether or not they like/agree with the formation or job thay have been given. Tactics are more improtant than many people think. It is very important to be flexible with your tactics and be able to change throughout a season/game to adapt to your environment.
So in conclusion I agree that to a certain extent the players win matches but if they don't know their jobs within the team you may as well have any old idiot playing for you.


Captain JS please read what I wrote again mate. I know you have to have some sort of structure BUT my point is you can have all the tactics in the world but if your opposition change theirs then your up a certain creek without a paddle !!

At this level it is the PLAYERS who can influence results moreso than formations and tactics, BUT this is only my opinion mate :wink:
Ian Saunders
Follow the stags at [color=#0000FF]http://www.pitchero.com/clubs/midhurstandeasebournefc
Follow Petersfield Town FC at http://www.petersfieldtownfc.co.uk
User avatar
Big Sus
 
Posts: 904
Joined: Tue Jan 16 2007, 15:01
Location: Salisbury
Non League Club: Petersfield Town FC
Pro Club: Plymouth Argyle
Twitter Acct: @BigSus1975

Opens in new browser window

Postby Tony Minoldo » Sat Aug 11 2007, 22:09

What come first, the hen or the egg??? Both tactics and players are important, I think we can argue for ages without reaching an agreement, but I can see Big Sus point too, but I wouldn't say "at this level".

A manager plans every detail, then his striker misses and open goal, or the referee gives a dubious penalty against your team, or your keeper let's the ball in from a corner, and all your plans go to heck...All those three have happened to my teams in the past...

Or the opponents have a free kick, the ball hits a forward in the shoulder when the keeper is commited to the other side and you concede a goal (Milan v Liverpool, UCL 2007 final)?? What happen then to the tactics then?

In sum, I think that tactics, strategies, schemes, plans A and plans B are all of paramount importance, but end of the days the players are the ones who put them into action...
User avatar
Tony Minoldo
 
Posts: 504
Joined: Thu Dec 14 2006, 21:07
Location: AC Milan

Opens in new browser window

Return to Coaching and Tips



Opens in new browser window