England v Portugal

[the lawn mower]

What next for the super Lennon. Having to suffer the embarassing subbing of the sub. Where all those that were calling for him to replace Beckham. Hiding in shame no doubt.

Sorry mate,- I dont do - "Hiding in shame".

I think as time goes by you will realise that Lennon replacing Beckham could be regular event, possibly, permanent.

LENNON has certainly got zero to be embarassed about

[goalscorer]

l feel that we've all been badly let down by a man from Sweden.

Even after his mistakes with squad selection, and then the poor performances in the group stage followed by the obscene tinkering with formations just so that he could fit in all the perceived superstars, l believe that he could have remedied it all with a better team selection for Saturday's game.

Never mind the choice between Beckham & Lennon, or the one between Hargreaves & Carrick, or whether we'd be better off with a naturally left footed player on the left.

lf he had just played Crouch up front with Rooney in a 4-4-2 and put Lampard on the bench, l'm convinced that we would be in the semi-final on Wednesday.

l don't believe that anyone on this forum would have picked the same side as Eriksson.

lt's more difficult to accept because Portugal were not a very good side.

[Fingers]

As a Englishmen and Manchester United fan I hope Cristano Ronaldo never kicks a ball for Man Utd again. I would have made it it my aim to cripple the twat during the game. I have already written a letter to Old Trafford stating he should be sold immediately to Real Madrid for the sake of the club. Manchester United are already the most hated club in england and by allowing theat twat to continue playing will increase the hatred.

At this moment in time I am inclined to agree with Larkin and Yellow Peril.
At the highest level of football it seems to be those who can cheat and fake the best are more successful. We look back to Lionel Messi that eventually led to Chelsea losing to Barcelona earlier in the season. Last world cup we saw Rivaldo fake a head injury which led to a Turkish bloke being sent off. What did he get a £50,000 fine wow that all of about a weeks work to some of these overpaid nancy boys. Video evidence should be bought in the curb the cheats. If its found that someone has dived and conned a ref then they should be banned. If it happens couple of times then it will stop. Referees can not be expected to make and get every decision right. They need help and the game itself needs help otherwise people will get like I am this morning totally dis-interested in the professional game.

I really dont care who wins the world cup now. It will probably be either Portugal or Italy because they dive and cheat the best.

As I right this I see Beckham has resigned from the England Captaincy. Rightly so we need to re-group and inject so new blood now. The players we had at this world cup were on paper the best I can remember which is why I was confident we could win it. But as ever you never win anything on paper. I was bitterley dissappointed with Lampards performances in this world cup, he was a shadow of his Chelsea form. Whatever generation of players we always seem to have players who excell at club level but never seem to carry that form on to the national stage, I can remember John Barnes and Steve McManaman and now I put Frank Lampard in that catergory after this world cup. Some could argue David Beckham has underperformed and his last 3 major international tournaments. Hindsight is a wonderful and Im sure there are people this morning saying well I told you he never have played one upfront or he should have played Lennon.
I don not think as a nation we have improved under Sven at all. Its cost the English FA £25million for a bloke who has got us to 3 1/4 finals. We need someone to come in and instill the mentality that the Germans have. I dont know how this can be done but why do the Germans always manage to perform at major championships. Having self beleif is one thing but the players still need the desire. Imagine if all the england players had played and showed as much desire as Owen Hargreaves did yesterday. We have to instill a desire not to lose a game of football.

The worring thing is it looked as though Sven wasnt making any decisions. McClaren was doing all the shouting and making decisions on formation and subs. I think Im right in saying even Ray Clemence suggested putting on Carragher for Lennon and all we got was a nodded head from Sven whilst to my amazement he was standing up.

One things for sure Wayne Rooney owes his country big time and Im sure his time will come!

[The Horse]

Really gutted about yesterday and cant help feel that its another great chance (as with 2004) that weve blown of winning a major tournament.

I feel that the biggest problem with Sven is he could not make changes iin games that would affect the game during the game (if that makes sense??) - he always seemed to set the team up and then just let it go out there. If it was me managing (if only, 5 mil a year!!) I would have started with that line up and after 15 mins you could clearly see that Portugal were very average to say the least and were beatable and adjusted it by pushing gerrard up there with Rooney, this way we could have put some pressure on them, but the team seemed totally set up to defend incredibly deep when Portugal didnt even have any pace - makes no sense??

At half time lampard should have come off for Crouch and then played a stright forward 4-4-2.

I felt sorry for Rooney (partly cos I love him and cant see any bad in him) because all he could do was doggies as he had no support.

The only good thing is if and its a big doubtful if, mclaren is up to the job we now have the basis to really push for the euros as despite perhaps what we all think we have a potentially great side.

Robinson, Terry (new captain), Rio, GUnit, and Ashley Cole have at least 4 more years in them as a group which has got to be a good thing. Joe Cole had a decent tournament and is only 24. play Gerrard in the right position, give him confidence and weve got a world beater. Rooney and Owen are two class strikers and for me Beckham still has value and anyone who says Lennon is the best option is wrong we scored 6 goals in this cup and Beckham scored 1 and set up 2 and i think him not being captain will help his game.

I have to say I thought Hargreaves was magnificent yesterday and deserves a place on merit now. English people are so fickle and forget that because he dont play in england dont make him a bad player. He plays CM with Ballack in a side that has won @!#& loads including the Champions League so cant be that bad!!!

Rambling a bit but another important point is, its no coincidence that Hargreaves scored in both our last penalty shoot outs when others have failed - dya think it might have something to do with the German mantality that has been instilled in him since he was a kid??? - just a thought.

Have to say Lampard for me has been a disgrace this tournament and another big problem with sven is he picks teams on name alone. The lad is clearly out of form and I have always believed the best names dont always make the best teams (look at Brazil, look at Germany!!). I dont doubt hes a good player but he is one of the most over-rated players around (he looks good for Chelsea as he has Essien and Makalele to do his donkey work and Makalele could allow me to play well in midfield!!!). He cant pass the ball as well as Beckham, Gerrard or Carrick, has no pace, average at heading, could hardly be described as box to box but what he normally does do is give you goals but if he is going through one of them spells all players have then he is completely ineffective.

Really gutted as im sure we all are and feel for beckham, that must have been the hardest thing he has ever done giving up the captaincy of your country and hope he comes back better than ever.

And to Sven, with your 5 million a year, speaking to other clubs and shieks your sleeping around and you and Tord Grip have a jolly up for 5 years at our expense round all the ground in the country - goodbye, thanks for nothing and fu*k off.

[crewealexfc]

i do agree with a lot of what your saying.

i do think sven made some big errors during this world cup, and everone knows that, but look where he took us.

3 quarter finals, we lost to the winners once, and a finalist. before sven came about, we didnt get of the euro 2000 group, and we got to the 2nd round in 98. we didnt even qualify in 94! obviously there were big turning points in them, beckham, koeman to name a few.

But i do think that as a whole we have improved in his reign.

[MITCHELL]

[quote="Fingers"]As a Englishmen and Manchester United fan I hope Cristano Ronaldo never kicks a ball for Man Utd again. I would have made it it my aim to cripple the twat during the game. I have already written a letter to Old Trafford stating he should be sold immediately to Real Madrid for the sake of the club. Manchester United are already the most hated club in england and by allowing theat twat to continue playing will increase the hatred.

Agree on that one

[Lord Zola]

Really gutted about yesterday and cant help feel that its another great chance (as with 2004) that weve blown of winning a major tournament.

I feel that the biggest problem with Sven is he could not make changes iin games that would affect the game during the game (if that makes sense??) - he always seemed to set the team up and then just let it go out there. If it was me managing (if only, 5 mil a year!!) I would have started with that line up and after 15 mins you could clearly see that Portugal were very average to say the least and were beatable and adjusted it by pushing gerrard up there with Rooney, this way we could have put some pressure on them, but the team seemed totally set up to defend incredibly deep when Portugal didnt even have any pace - makes no sense??

At half time lampard should have come off for Crouch and then played a stright forward 4-4-2.

I felt sorry for Rooney (partly cos I love him and cant see any bad in him) because all he could do was doggies as he had no support.

The only good thing is if and its a big doubtful if, mclaren is up to the job we now have the basis to really push for the euros as despite perhaps what we all think we have a potentially great side.

Robinson, Terry (new captain), Rio, GUnit, and Ashley Cole have at least 4 more years in them as a group which has got to be a good thing. Joe Cole had a decent tournament and is only 24. play Gerrard in the right position, give him confidence and weve got a world beater. Rooney and Owen are two class strikers and for me Beckham still has value and anyone who says Lennon is the best option is wrong we scored 6 goals in this cup and Beckham scored 1 and set up 2 and i think him not being captain will help his game.

I have to say I thought Hargreaves was magnificent yesterday and deserves a place on merit now. English people are so fickle and forget that because he dont play in england dont make him a bad player. He plays CM with Ballack in a side that has won @!#& loads including the Champions League so cant be that bad!!!

Rambling a bit but another important point is, its no coincidence that Hargreaves scored in both our last penalty shoot outs when others have failed - dya think it might have something to do with the German mantality that has been instilled in him since he was a kid??? - just a thought.

Have to say Lampard for me has been a disgrace this tournament and another big problem with sven is he picks teams on name alone. The lad is clearly out of form and I have always believed the best names dont always make the best teams (look at Brazil, look at Germany!!). I dont doubt hes a good player but he is one of the most over-rated players around (he looks good for Chelsea as he has Essien and Makalele to do his donkey work and Makalele could allow me to play well in midfield!!!). He cant pass the ball as well as Beckham, Gerrard or Carrick, has no pace, average at heading, could hardly be described as box to box but what he normally does do is give you goals but if he is going through one of them spells all players have then he is completely ineffective.

Really gutted as im sure we all are and feel for beckham, that must have been the hardest thing he has ever done giving up the captaincy of your country and hope he comes back better than ever.

And to Sven, with your 5 million a year, speaking to other clubs and shieks your sleeping around and you and Tord Grip have a jolly up for 5 years at our expense round all the ground in the country - goodbye, thanks for nothing and fu*k off.

You can't judge everyone on the last 5 games. If that was the case then Beckham should have gone along time ago, as he is yet to have a decent major tournament.

As a Chelsea fan, I think the stick Lampard is getting is all wrong. Agreed, he never played well as the World Cup, as didn't Owen, Rooney, Beckham and in my opinion Gerrard. Not sure how much you watch of Chelsea Horse, but one thing Lamprd IS is "Box to Box". He CAN head the ball, as he proved when scoring 1 of his 3 goals at Euro 2004 (incidently the same number of goals as the 2004 hero Rooney scored at Euro 2004 & Lampards third goal of his 3 was the only reason we made it to Penalties against Portugal back then). Also he was the top scorer, and probably top performer in qualifying for the world cup so to say he dosen't replicate Club form for Engalnd is nonense, the one player who certainly doesn't do that is Gerrard.

ps - We also have to try and be objective, and and as good a Ronney is, he's not scored a competitive goal for England in over 2 years. He was also poor at this world cup (his touch was awful) and let England down big time on Saturday. He's your scape goat if you want one, not the others, who gave all they had, regardless of how well they actually played.

[Fingers]

Lord Zola - I wasnt questioning Lampards right to play or using him as a scapegoat for our failure to win the competition. His performances at this world cup were way below what we expect of him going by his club performances and recent England performances. Im sure Lampard would be the first to aknowledge he hasnt had a good world cup. I think only The back four can come out with credit as we only conceded in one game and they were from set peices. Joe Cole showed flashes, but then I always ask why is he the first to be substituted. Owen Hargreaves was excellent against Portugal and I think proved a lot of people wrong with his energy levels and desire. The forwards were hopeless. Rooney was awful by his standards but then can we expect a guy who had been injured for 7 weeks to play to his full potential. As fans you get caught up in the europhria and beleive he can but in the cold light of day even Pele would have struggled. Under Sven there have certainly been more Cons than pros. People speak of Beckhams free-kick to guarantee qualification for the 2002 world cup, but that was against Greece in our own backyard and it only drew the game. We peaked under Sven when we stuffed the Germans 5-1 in their backyard in 2001, but they still made it the final of the World Cup in 2002 and are in another World Cup semi final. Im sure we would all trade a 5-1 stuffing for two semi-final slots.

I just hope Steve McClaren can take the national side forward as I now feel Sven hasnt done that is the slightest. The FA should be held responsible and I hope they have learned from their mistakes

I hope one day to support my country in a final. I really thought this year would be it but too many big players under performed.

[Lord Zola]

Lord Zola - I wasnt questioning Lampards right to play or using him as a scapegoat for our failure to win the competition. His performances at this world cup were way below what we expect of him going by his club performances and recent England performances. Im sure Lampard would be the first to aknowledge he hasnt had a good world cup. I think only The back four can come out with credit as we only conceded in one game and they were from set peices. Joe Cole showed flashes, but then I always ask why is he the first to be substituted. Owen Hargreaves was excellent against Portugal and I think proved a lot of people wrong with his energy levels and desire. The forwards were hopeless. Rooney was awful by his standards but then can we expect a guy who had been injured for 7 weeks to play to his full potential. As fans you get caught up in the europhria and beleive he can but in the cold light of day even Pele would have struggled. Under Sven there have certainly been more Cons than pros. People speak of Beckhams free-kick to guarantee qualification for the 2002 world cup, but that was against Greece in our own backyard and it only drew the game. We peaked under Sven when we stuffed the Germans 5-1 in their backyard in 2001, but they still made it the final of the World Cup in 2002 and are in another World Cup semi final. Im sure we would all trade a 5-1 stuffing for two semi-final slots.

I just hope Steve McClaren can take the national side forward as I now feel Sven hasnt done that is the slightest. The FA should be held responsible and I hope they have learned from their mistakes

I hope one day to support my country in a final. I really thought this year would be it but too many big players under performed.

More aimed at Horse's inept comments than your own, Monty.

[orue]

Here we go again,yet another World Cup, European championships passes and we have the boring,monotonous inquiries as to why we have underperformed,please see below for the definitive answer:

WE ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH!!!.

At every level of football in this country we rant on about strong players as if physical presence is the only requirement.We completely overlook the essential requirement for even the most basic footballer,ABILITY in whatever quantity.

I well remember standing beside a pitch watching a team of u13's in an end of season tournament some years ago when a guy stepped up to me and started a conversation.His first comment was "see anyone you like?, I was in fact looking at a player who could use both feet,had good balance, a good eye for a pass and the ability to go past people,he was also quite small. When I told this guy his response was,"I am a scout for Everton and I have to look for boys who are at least ???so tall,playing for their county and can do 100 mtrs in ?? seconds. He was in fact looking at a tall centre half who was totally bereft of any natural ability,IMO.

This attitude is further reinforced by the bench coat brigade. These are the people who have probably played a bit of football,have sons who they hope will play for Real Madrid and who think,for whatever reason that they should get a badge to prove their knowledge.So off they go and read 'The Winning Formula' by Mr Hughes (the coaching bible apparently,as endorsed by the FA,and probably the biggest load of crap ever written about football). No slur is intended to the many competent coaches out there who do try to teach the right way.

The point I am attempting to make here, probably very poorly,is that we all talk about the foreign teams who play attractive football,whos players can hold on to the ball,who don't get a nosebleed when closed down,who can pass a ball first time without advertising it,can use their other foot when needed and on and on etc. Until we change our attitude COMPLETELY in this country to player development we will just continue to drop down the world rankings.We have got to stop importing players from other countries,who to be honest are probably no better than we could develop ourselves if we were to set up the facilities.These players are here for no other reason than ££££s.

I know for a fact that the FA have tried to introduce a certain alternative and very effective method of coaching into this country but have met with stern rejection from amongst
others the very man appointed to re-structure the coaching methods being used and taught,a certain Mr HW (aka football dinosaur par excellence).

Lets hope our new national manager will see that at this world cup we have been shown to be average,over-rated,and incapable of living with the best out there.We do have players,Carrick,Lennon,Rooney,Terry,Gerrard who with the right coaching could compete on the world stage,but we must change our attitudes and coaching methods.

Will end now before this post becomes a book,and I'm getting bored with saying the same old thing.

[Dave]

Sorry but I disagree with your comments, we are good enough to win a major tournament, the only problem is that Europe is filled with dirty cheating c***s like Christiano and c*ckless refs who can't see blatent cheating when its going on in front of the d*ck hanging from their foreheads.

Leave Rooney on the pitch and bring on Crouch to play alongside him for the last half an hour and I believe we would have won that match and would been good enough to do France and then either of the other two in the final - cheats always prosper!

[orue]

Sorry your'e wrong,we have players who whilst not being in the class of some of Europes best can certainly dive and feign injury.This is another of the worthless imports into our game along with over-rated and pampered prima-donnas. People like Mourinho should be banned from holding top positions in our game. Let's face it Norman Wisdom could win the league with the KGBs money.

[Lord Zola]

I well remember standing beside a pitch watching a team of u13's in an end of season tournament some years ago when a guy stepped up to me and started a conversation.His first comment was "see anyone you like?, I was in fact looking at a player who could use both feet,had good balance, a good eye for a pass and the ability to go past people,he was also quite small. When I told this guy his response was,"I am a scout for Everton and I have to look for boys who are at least ???so tall,playing for their county and can do 100 mtrs in ?? seconds. He was in fact looking at a tall centre half who was totally bereft of any natural ability,IMO.

Still the case. How many players at County League level are picked above someone with more abilty than them, purley because they are bigger or faster. I know of players who aren't IMO very good players, but because they are tall and can head the ball, or a big and can out muscle a player, then they are picked week in week out. Ask them to trap a ball or knock a 30 yard pass with either foot and they would struggle.

You will always get this a County Level, as it's not a very good standard of football in truth, but the higher up the ladder you go, you'd like to think these "lumps" would get found out, but as Martin Keown prooved, this is not always the case, as there will alway be managers who think "lumps" are the way to go.

[Lord Zola]

Sorry your'e wrong,we have players who whilst not being in the class of some of Europes best can certainly dive and feign injury.This is another of the worthless imports into our game along with over-rated and pampered prima-donnas. People like Mourinho should be banned from holding top positions in our game. Let's face it Norman Wisdom could win the league with the KGBs money.

Why Mourhino? wasn't it Wenger who played an entire month last season without even selecting a Englishman? Is Jose the only manager signing foreigners? If memory serves me right, Walcott is only the 3rd Englishman Wenger has ever signed? (Wright and Jeffers the others) in 10 years.

Also, Norman Wisdon must be a better manager than Raineri, cause he spent over £100 million 3 years ago and won jack.

[orue]

Why Mourinho?. In truth I don't support either Chelski or Arsenal but as a neutral I have to say Arsenal are a much nicer spectacle to watch.Let's be honest Chelsea have some of the most synical and dishonest players ever to infest our game, Drogba,Carvallho,Essien. Just the type our game could do without,sorry.

Your comments about the farmers league are totally correct, this league is heavily populated by players who are just kidding both themselves and to some extent the so called experts,the managers. My posting was making exactly the same point. WE DO NOT VALUE CLASS,TECHNICAL ABILITY AND FLAIR above hard work and headless chicken syndrome.

I know from first hand experience that foreign clubs and coaches especially in Spain think our pre-occupation with the ridiculous belief that we are a major force in world football is absolutely comical.They laugh at us and think in general our players are average. The coaching emphasis in Spain is aimed at players being totally comfortable with the ball.

BUT the bottom line is we will carry on as we are,destroying players who can play football in favour of lumps who cannot.I think this was where I started.